Yo, everybody
There’s a lot of unintentional ignorance out there, so let’s get something straight.
If you’re a woman, and you call him Cindy Crosby, or you call them the Sedin Sisters, or you think “Two Girls No Cup” is funny, do you know what you’re doing? You are calling someone female to insult them. You are using yourself as an insult. Have a little more respect for yourself.
If you’re a man, and you make Cindy/Sedin Sisters jokes at me to make me laugh, do you know what you are doing? You are using me as an insult. Why would I find that funny? In fact, making a joke like that at me pretty much guarantees I won’t want to have anything more to do with you.
Maybe you don’t mean to be sexist. Maybe you make that joke because everybody makes jokes like that, and have been doing that for a long, long time. Even women laugh at those jokes, and wear those shirts. What’s the big deal? The big deal is that nobody makes a big deal out of it.
So let’s start. When someone makes a joke like that, politely break the joke down for them. In the last day alone I’ve pointed it out to three people and received a favourable response. “You’re right. I’m sorry.” No need to yell, belittle, or make someone feel like they murdered a puppy. Just break it down nicely. If someone doesn’t get it, then yes, they have serious problems, but trying to educate people without attacking them seems to work pretty well on this particular issue.
Oh, and if you are anyone and you own a Two Girls No Cup shirt, burn it. Don’t give it to charity. Burn it. Don’t cut it up and turn it into rags you can clean your car with. Burn it.
Cool?
Trackbacks
- NHL Blog Beat – April 16, 2012. | Spectors Hockey
- Senators fined $10,000 by NHL; big NBC ratings; Norfolk Admirals streak alive (Puck Headlines) | Fantasy Hockey News – FaceoffNews
- On The Brink | The Humming Giraffe
- TAS is 3 years old « The Active Stick
- Sexism and blogging in the hockey media: Puck Daddy roundtable debate | NHLRealTalk
The Active Stick 
….go get laid.
I’d fuck her, which is more than I can say for you, anonymous. Sexism is never hot.
for inserting the generic angry lesbian rebuttal, the world thanks you for your timely wit.
There’s nothing braver than someone who comments annoymously on the internet
helping women kind by making your point based on who you’d have sex with. that’s totally 21st century of you, bro
Why did you choose to remain anonymous? We all want to know who you are so we can lavish you with praise for your incredible wit. I’m sure I’m not the only one wiping soda from my computer screen because your amazingly deep and insightful sense of humor made me do a spit take!
**yawn** You misogynists really need new material. That one’s been around since…oh, the paleolithic. Or is that too big a word for you?
God you’re ugly.
Nothing is uglier than a troll. That’s all you’re here for, isn’t it?
You’re ugly, too. Kind of grey. And unhealthy looking. I suggest you get out of your mom’s basement and get some sun.
Is that you, Milbury?
You win tonight’s Internet, CT.
It’s a thing I do.
Because people who get laid are not sexist? Fuck off.
Amen.
And that wasn’t an amen for douchenonymous.
It takes a lot of testicular fortitude to anonymously tell someone to get laid, am I right? That aside… you’re spot-on. I’m not sure what humor is to be found or what audience someone is catering to by making these jokes.
It’s a joke a lot more important things in the world than crying over calling somebody a woman. But it’s ok when girls call guys pussy’s? Yea get over yourself, joke is funny blog about something more important.
This can’t **possibly** be a real comment, coming from a real account. That said, no. It’s not OK when girls call guys “pussys.” I believe that was the point of the blog, doucheweasel.
Oh I didn’t know you were mother theresa and represent all woman. Most woman couldn’t care but you think the world is against you when jokes are made about woman. Here’s another joke for you get back in the kitchen!
Hmm. OK. It is a real account. I wasn’t sure I could trust someone who can’t even spell idiot properly. But your comments prove that it’s clearly on the up and up.
Idiot is spelt correctly in his/her email.
Actually she’s not trying to be Mother Theresa here, she’s echoing the thoughts of what MOST women think of these jokes and yes most women DO care .
I agree, why doesn’t this hockey blog address something important like universal health care?
Exactly or why woman bitch to bitch?
I assume they do that because they hate you.
or bitch about jokes instead of worrying about more important stuff. But some woman you can’t please like the one that wrote this blog.
Now I just want to see how skinny I can make this reply rectangle.
Ya douchewhistle.
Wow man you are so cool.
Thanks!
Alright, I give up on talking about hockey on the internet if this level of aspergers and hypersensitivity is the norm.
What do you mean, “this level of aspergers and hypersensitivity”?
I wasn’t aware wanting to be treated like a human being qualified people for “aspergers”.
human beings get made fun of, bro
being made fun of and being used as an insult are two different things
Do you know what you’re saying when you call her oversensitive? You’re saying that other people’s — and your — right to say whatever you feel like trumps her right to be upset by it. You’re saying that not only do you and other people have the right to say dumb things, you also have the right to control how other people react to it. So, uh, congrats on being a selfish asshole.
umm no i don’t think i have the right to control how people react to it, but i definitely have the right to pass judgement on how they react to it and to think they’re silly for being so sensitive. and yes, my right to say whatever i want trumps someone else’s right to not be offended, first amendment yo.
i never said you don’t have a “right” to be upset, but i’d definitely argue there’s no good reason. you can believe what you want, but i also believe what i want and i believe it’s silly, and this is the ridiculous territory you’ve got yourself into. you’ve convinced yourself that differing opinions are infringing on your rights and now it’s like this weird reality you live in where everyone who states disagreement is making a statement about what someone should have the right to believe, and that’s just stupid.
btw i think it’s p cool that you guys got hella offended by using a girl’s name as an insult but not the aspergers crack, way to go guys
Wow. Have you actually READ the first amendment by any chance? Because the way the American public at large distorts its original purpose, intent, and meaning is downright appalling. The actual amendment states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
Under NONE OF THESE THINGS does your “right” (you have none) to judge others come into play. Your proclaimed “right” to insist your opinion is valid and therefore trumps anyone’s ability to be offended by it is ALSO incorrect and NOT A RIGHT granted to you in any jurisdiction or under any legislation.
Not to mention your accusation that anybody who states this opinion you disagree with amounts to having asbergers is paramount to violation of several libel laws include Blackstone and Farwell.
If he does not have the right to judge people, then you subsequently, do not have the right to judge him; which is what you are doing now.
hahaha holy shit you’re arguing that the first amendment doesn’t give me the right to say whatever the fuck I want? That is so asinine it hurts. Yes, I can say what I want. Yes, I can think what I want, and if someone didn’t think to include within the document restricting the powers of the federal government to include a provision preventing people from being punished for what they think and say, the feminist movement would be about 230 years behind.
remember folks, any stated disagreement is an affront to someone else’s rights, unless a liberal does it.
honestly you people are all about respecting other people’s views and choices until someone disagrees with you and then everyone’s an ignorant unevolved redneck idiot or whatever, and because they judge morality based on what a poli-sci prof once told them instead of through critical thinking, it’s impossible to change their minds hahaha
Mostly I’m curious why you think that you get a say in whether or not a certain group of people should be offended by a joke disparaging them, when you don’t actually belong to that group of people.
I should be asking you the same question, why are you being offended by a comment directed towards 3 different male Hockey players, and then twisting the comments meaning in order to incite a backlash by directing it towards a broader group of people.
I’m not saying that you don’t have a right to be offended. I’m saying you don’t have a reason to. I could take any random thing you’ve said as offensive and then whine and while I’d have every right to it, it would be stupid and asinine.
Can we say this again? Stated disagreement is not an affront to your rights.
Actually, what he is trying to do is make fun of the reaction and backlash that he has received from people who view the comment about: Sidney Crosby’s & the Sedin Twins’ on ice behavior resembling that of a whiney little girl; to be inherently sexist. Which it is not.
If you’re using “you’re female” as an insult, that’s sexist. Not sure how I can make that any clearer.
I do agree that it’s sexist, but women are also typically smaller and weaker, and I’m not sure what the point in getting angry over something that’s accurate is. Accuracy should be more important than your hurt feelings.
Yeah! Darn these hypersensitive women-folk who don’t understand that there’s totally nothing wrong with having their gender used as an insult!
Because as we all know, little boys don’t whine EVER.
I thought 2 girls no cup was clever for everything except using female as an insult. I wish it didn’t have to do that, but I’m okay with it because I so cherish the reference to the shock video and the fact that the Sedins haven’t won a cup.
Get laid.
…wait that isn’t an appropriate response at all!
You turkey.
You know, I had a thought. Sexual frustration is curable but stupid lasts forever. And I’m still dying over “douchewhistle.”
Always hilarious when people want posters to have accountability on the internet. I find two girls no cups hilarious, cause I’m an oilers fan. not cause I’m sexist. I despise Brian Burke and the team of swedes and americans that Vancouver is just now starting to ride to president’s trophies. Don’t burn your two girls no cups shirts, its funny.
You don’t get it. It’s cool (not really). Maybe one day you will but i’m not a betting man.
It’s called humor……….
I’ll be the judge of that…because I am a certified humorologist.
You wouldn’t understand.
There are ways to be funny that don’t involve being sexist.
I want to buy that dude wearing a \”Sedin Sisters: 2 Girls, no cup\” shirt behind the Vancouver bench a beer. Canucks
To each his own, I guess. Personally I prefer to buy people who are a little more creative and also not sexist beers, but hey. it’s your money.
Good post. This is something I’ve def been guilty of before. I’ll avoid it from here on out.
You made my night.
I want to hug you so bad right now.
I will double up and buy two t-shirts.
Coming from a website that displays the quote “The only heat you should be packing is in your pants,” this post rings a bit hollow.
…really? You’re really going there? You’re honestly going to pull the, “You’re being sexist against men” card? Do you want to re-think this? Do you want to consider how stupid your post was? Oh, go ahead. Also comment how it’s okay for black people to say things that white people can’t. Complete the flush.
I’ve always considered the “Cindy” and “Sedin sisters” “jokes” to be lazy and just stupid in general. Just pointing out that it’s hypocritical to talk down to readers about sexism when you’re guilty of doing the same thing. How does this make me stupid?
Sexism is not mentioning sexuality. Sexism is also not admiring sexuality. Sexism is TREATING ONE GENDER AS IF IT IS UNDER THE OTHER GENDER IN SOME WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. If a woman says, “I love fucking men’s penises” or a man says, “I love fucking women’s vaginas” or a woman says, “I love fucking women’s vaginas” or a man says, “I love fucking a men’s penises” that’s not sexist. But the moment you INSULT a man or a woman by using the opposite gender as a slight or insult towards them? That’s sexist.
Comprendé? I apologize for assuming you understood this.
That comment has absolutely nothing to do with what Shawn just said. You aren’t reading anything anyone who disagrees with you writes anymore, are you?
Maybe I am guilty of the same unintentional ignorance I was talking about, so how about, instead of calling me a hypocrite, respectfully explain to me how a line I like to use in discussions about gun control with both men and women is sexist?
I’m listening, as long as you’re being respectful.
I’m sorry you think I am talking down to readers about sexism. That certainly wasn’t my intention.
My intention is NEVER to talk down to anybody, although sometimes I use strong words to express frustration.
And next time, leave an actual email address. Leaving a joke one makes you no better than the anonymous cowards above.
I thought this was a hockey blog, not a political blog.
This is a hockey blog. The post is specifically about an issue that involves hockey fans and hockey players.
Amen. I totally wish everyone could stop doing that crap. Sadly, it’s probably not going to happen.
Maybe not with everyone, but think of the three people she already educated. And what if they convince three more people…and they convince three more people each…it’s an exponentially growing Mandelbrot Set of Win.
Great post. The general point about this entire post is that using gender as an insult at all is wrong. In the vast majority of cases, and it represents our sad state of society, it’s women that are oppressed when this type of “humor” is used, therefore making that the more prevalent problem. Using the term “Sedin sisters” as a derogatory comment is just as bad as calling a female some variation of “man” just because she doesn’t fit traditional female characteristics in the eyes of someone. If you aren’t witty enough to criticize someone or something without using a sexist, racial or homophobic term, just excuse yourself from the discussion and civilized society in general.
Anybody who drops a comment that defends the use of gender as the butt of a joke, or thinks it’s hysterical is not much more than a cretin without an original thought in their head. They’re a lemming that will do pretty much anything that encourages them to beat their chest and make sure that everyone hears their silly, ignorant voice. They probably don’t own a book without pop-up pictures and they count “leaving a comment on a blog post” as essay writing that would impress their high school teacher. And they certainly think that the Jackass movies are the funniest “films” ever made.
Usually I’d say to ignore these people, but these are pretty much the meatheads that the message of this blog post is for.
Wow. Sure you don’t want to add some more insults into your generalization? Surprised you couldn’t fit ‘knuckle dragging ape’ or neanderthal into your weak attempt to infer that anyone who finds this kind of humor funny is somehow a complete dolt. Is it a burden, being that brainy? Are these biting comments a way to make you feel superior to those you so quickly determine do not have your intellectual pedigree? Maybe someone should give you a noogie and shove you in a locker.
A lot of the comments here made me lose more of my already tenuous faith in humanity. Sheesh, what is it about women wanting to be treated like human beings and not have their vaginas used as the basis of insults that gets some boys all up in a tizzy? Anyway, well said, Laura, and thank you for posting this despite the shitstorm it incurred (are we ever NOT going to incur shitstorms over calling out sexist behavior? Probably not).
I’ve gotten laughed at repeatedly for asking boys to stop calling Tampa Bay “Tampon Bay” or the LA Kings the “Queens.” It’s not uptight or “politically correct” for women to say enough is enough, we’re tired of our gender being used this way. Being female is not weak, being female is not a defeciency worthy of insult. Just because a player exhibits behavior you don’t like or acts like a fool on the ice doesn’t make him “girly” or whatever.
To you big macho heterosexual boys who think otherwise: how does it benefit YOU to demean the gender you claim to be attracted to?
that’s a straw-man, i never claimed to be heterosexual
It works all the same. Homosexuals don’t need to be demeaning anyone either as we are fighting the same battle.
And what of us who don’t find this demeaning? And by the way, comparing the way women are treated in society to how gays are treated is hilarious.
I am a lesbian so I find a great number of the comments demeaning to both women and homosexuals. I have no idea if you are gay, Steve, but just because another group is demeaned more, doesn’t mean it is right. The fact that women’s rights have progressed farther than gay rights is a fact of history – having been recognized earlier. Starting in the mid-1800’s has given women a bit of a headstart on homosexuals who generally started working for reform in 1969.
This is why you can’t make jokes around women. It wouldn’t be funny if no one was offended!
You must be one lonely person.
No, but I appreciate the concern
Hahaha isn’t that the point of jokes? To offend someone?
No. The point of jokes is to make people laugh and feel good. It kind of sucks that some people can only feel better or happy if they are making someone else feel worse or unhappy.
Very much agreed here. The point of a joke is to make someone laugh, not to offend.
You know what’s funny? Sedin Divers, Burrows the Biter, Sidney Crysby or whatever…that I can understand as a joke and doesn’t offend anyone
You are insulting Olympic divers, people who bite into their meal, and anyone who cries. You insensitive ass!
well no I’m not insulting anyone but let me break it down
Olympic diving is a separate sport however “diving” is an act that is penalized in hockey there saying someone is a diver in hockey is like saying a player can’t stop taking dumb penalties every game.
Biting into their meals? Ok, then because Burrows biting someone’s fingers is exactly what that means.
As for Crysby, well it’s more of an insult to the fact that he whines and complain a lot not like a girl but like a human being male or female who both have the right to cry. I never understood the Crosby insults but that was an example anyways
Yes, but a joke that offends no one is typically boring and lame
Thank you for this. Every time I hear the ‘two girls, no cup’ joke it makes me frown. And then it makes me want to like the Canucks to be contrary, and that is a terrible feeling indeed.
I’m a girl and of course I call him Cindy Crosby, call the twins the Sedin Sisters, and although I’ve never heard of Two Girls No Cup, I find it hilarious! It’s not about sexism or anything, we’re just hockey fans making fun of other hockey fans’ teams. It’s part of being a hockey fan. I’ve heard people come up with some creative insults against my favorite team, the Red Wings, but so what? I make fun of their team, and it’s all good. If you’re all about trying to promote “sensitivity,” you’re working with the wrong set of fans. Go try soccer fans, or baseball fans. They’re a bunch of girls, anyway.
That begs the question…what is so wrong about a bunch of girls that you use that as a standard of being a bad team? I’m sure the women’s gold medal hockey team, the women’s gold medal soccer team, and pretty much the entire WNBA might have something to say about that.
Yes, girls can be good athletes. But be a realist, very few world records are held by women. 100m dash? Tour de France? Swimming? The Women’s Gold medal team is great, but put it up against the men’s. It likely loses.
I don’t think being a women should be the reason for an insult, but you have to face facts.
Put the women’s gold medal hockey team against the men’s??? I dont think you realize how much of a physical mismatch that is. If you take into consideration only 1 women has ever played NHL hockey (molly rheaume, 1 game in preseason I think?) and one other played ‘junior-A level hockey in europe’ (Haley Wickenheiser), they would get crushed. I know of exhibition games between 16 year old triple A teams here in ontario vs. university women’s teams and they most often win…There is no comparison, that game would be 15-0 with ease.
I do realize how much of a physical mismatch it would be. That is my point. While not intellectually inferior, they simply don’t have the strength men do.
I guess that works if you only define ‘weak’ in terms of physical power only. If that’s the way you define your worldview keep hanging out in that cave.
I’m simply responding to WordsonIce “what is so wrong about a bunch of girls that you use that as a standard of being a bad team?”
There is nothing inherently wrong with girls, but they are inherently physically weaker. I’m not quite sure how else you would define “strength”. Inner emotional strength? Yea, sure, but you can’t measure that accurately, which makes it exceedingly hard thing to compare.
If not physical power, how should I measure strength sportsgrl?
I’m referring to the fact that inner/mental strength should be valued as much as physical strength, measurable or not. It is as important a quality or characteristic as physical strength.
Don’t push physical strength too far down. In terms of sports, you can’t be the best without both. Many star athletes have failed due to the lack of mental strength, but many athletes never make it to the top level due to lack of physical strength.
Its not that its not valuable, but I think too much emphasis is put on determining a person’s inferiority based on their physical strength. And in the context of this post, by demeaning a person for being weak based on the fact that they are compared to a female.
The jokes are implying that the Sedins or Crosy are physically weak. That’s why it’s funny! Glad you agree! 🙂
Um. I don’t agree – when you compare anyone to a woman in order to state that they are weak, you are demeaning women.
Hey, folks. In the spirit of the post…we need to find another insult other than douche + whatever. The whole reason that is insulting is it’s comparing someone to a feminine hygiene product and anything that touches, or is, a Vaj is ‘*icky*’. See the logic?
Douche is actually a terrific feminist insult (http://persephonemagazine.com/2012/02/insults-with-feminists-douchebag/). Basically, douches are feminine unhygiene products – they kill the natural defensive bacteria in a vagina and leave women more vulnerable to infections, and they only exist to make companies money – which they do through ad campaigns that tell women that their vagina is dirty. Via Feministe: “Douches exist only because women have been told that our bodies are unclean. Douches, and the bags that reportedly accompany them, are terrible, no-good products. Insulting douches doesn’t insult women — the existence of douches insults women.”
Alrighty then! I can now use the insult and not feel bad about it. Someone called Tim Thomas a douchecanoe, and I laughed my ass off.
That’s awesome. Alright. Douchewhistle it is, then.
As a woman, I don’t think the insults mean that you’re saying something bad about women. It’s just calling them something they’re not. Same if you insulted a woman for using manly terms. Or if you insulted someone by calling them stupid even if they’re smart.
So yeah, I don’t really see a problem with it. It does depend on the individual person though and you have a valid point that it could be interpreted as sexist. Of course, this is all kind of silly when you think about it since insulting is wrong in general, sexist or otherwise. We shouldn’t be putting each other down anyway.
yeah i agree — i think stevie crosby is really funny i mean – his name is sidney, but you’re calling him stevie!!! hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hmmm..? maybe that isn’t funny. wonder why?
Seems to be the same amount of funny to me. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Every time I see someone wearing something like the ‘2 girls no cup’ t-shirts, it frustrates me. It drives me crazy when it’s a woman though. I want to yell through the tv – “Do you not understand what you’re implying?!?!?!”
Lighten up Francis.
What is it Implying? What do 2 Girls eating Feces have to do with all Women? It’s funny because it’s ridiculous not because all women do it, or people want to see it.
Calling someone Cindy Crosby is fair game.
Here is why.
It’s a Fact women are more intuitive and have more of a range of emotions then Men typically display, there fore when I man is expressing emotions more often identifiable with the opposite sex. It’s not an insult it is what it is.
People get called Dicks all the time, why? Because they hate men, maybe?
But isn’t intent and context everything? Maybe? Maybe not?
Making blanket statements like , everyone who says “Cindy Crosby” is a misogynist(over simplified and misquoted), is a little extreme, at least that’s how I feel.
Calling people something they are not is an insult. If the people said that the sedin’s didn’t have penises and balls, it’s still pretty funny. Absurd, but it makes me laugh. Does that offend people without genitals? Does it offend people who don’t want to hear the terms penis or balls? Should they use testicles instead? Are the balls that rednecks (oh shit, I just offended rednecks) hang from their hitches offensive? I hate seeing them. Maybe because seeing representations of balls swinging around inches from the pavement makes me uncomfortable.
Batter can’t hit. Pitcher can’t pitch. Goalie is a sieve. QB throws like Tim Couch. Is that more offensive to Tim Couch or the QB?
Pussy does not mean vagina does not mean girl. The meaning of words evolve over time. Gay used to mean happy. We’ll all feel gay when Johnny comes marching home. They probably don’t sing that song for returning troops anymore, but they once did.
Does that make me offensive? To some people, sure. To others, no. Does that mean I can shun others who offend me and that others can shun me for being offended? Yes. Absolutely.
Is it wrong to imply that anyone is something that they are not?
I don’t have a point. Just seeing what people think about all of this.
thanks for bringing up both this point and the proper way of handling it. as a father of a boy and girl – all sexist jokes are absolutely unwelcome.
And for the people defending this humor – you are right up there with gay-bashers… find something funny that doesn’t involve insulting gender, race, nationality, or sexual preference.
Dear Sensitive Guy,
Hahahahahahahahahahahahha.
I’m sorry, I can’t stop laughing at you. Sensitive guy? Really?
Hahahahahahahahaha.
Good luck with that.
Considering he’s already fathered two children, I’d say he’s had some good luck with it already.
I’m a woman, and you are part of what’s wrong with this country. Get the stick out your bum and have some fun. Women are doing better today than most men, it’s not the 60’s we don’t have much equality to fight for, we’re not losing ground because someone refers to someone else as a girl. I take issure with using gay slurs because gay men are actually being persecuted by some groups – women, not so much. Girls aren’t growing up with some false sense of inferiority because someone holds up a sign saying two girls, no cup.
Oh, and isn’t the term active stick used as sexual innuendo? Maybe men with ED would take offense to that, i think you need to seriously rethink the name of your blog, i mean, it’s a bit sexist.
so i guess you think it is fine if a young girl is playing a ‘boys’ sport with all the boys and she just up and quits because of all the haters saying girls shouldn’t play the sport.
this is the same type of non-sense that young girls sometimes are adversely affected by in math and science discipline – apparently, it is not polite to be smarter than boys in these subjects. so little cindy should just keep her mouth shut and let one of the boys answer the question.
you would have been a great champion of the civil rights movement in the US! you’re slogan could have been – at least you guys aren’t slaves!
I went through that, I played on boys softball teams from the age of seven to ten, and some of them made fun of me. But I decided to work harder and play better than them, and joke back with them. Girls should have thick skins, not just be pampered princesses. And you think a woman who took offense to a little joke would be a good civil rights fighter? As soon as someone called her a whore she would run off crying.
I like people who stand their ground on issues no matter how slight the offense happens to be. I don’t think this blogger ran off crying – she actually stood up intelligently and broke down the basic offense of such humor.
good for you that you worked harder and played better – that is great, but it doesn’t make the harassment any less offensive – and it certainly doesn’t help other girls when you say that girls should just take it (like a man of course!)
you do realize that some people don’t have thick skins. some people are adversely affected by people picking on them. go check out the movie ‘bully’ – and tell me what you think.
i may be getting off topic here – but there are plenty of avenues for humor that are not degrading to other people…
Thank you
No, thats not right. But she might want to realize that she will never be good enough to play in the NHL due to the limitations of the female form. Woman would get overpowered and this will always be true, its not being negative, its being logical and looking at statistics. Only molly rheaume has ever played a game with an NHL team, and it was a bit gimmicky imo…I look at these jokes as saying the sedin’s physical strength seems to dwindle in the playoffs, and although it definitely has sexist tones it does have some truth at the professional level…
So you think there is truth that Sidney Crosby cannot play in the NHL?
(mind you I cannot stand Crosby…)
But when someone calls the Sedins girls, they’re not trying to say “statistically I think the Sedins probably bench press less than Chara, therefore they are like girls, who also bench press less than Chara”. The category “people who are less physically strong than other people” is unbelievably broad and the category “people who are less physically strong than the Sedins” probably includes a lot of men. Calling the Sedins girls or sisters is specifically appealing to personality traits that are ascribed to women – whiny or emotional and unable to take a punch. This is ridiculous on a range of levels (women are by and large less physically strong than men, but women have higher pain tolerance than men; globally speaking, women do much more than men for much less reward – women perform 66% of the world’s work but earn 10% of the world’s income; do you think that’s an accurate representation of the Sedins? That they do 66% of the work on the Canucks and aren’t compensated proportionally?)
When you call the Sedins or Crosby girls, you are trying to say that they are bad hockey players on some dimension – and I don’t believe that the dimension you are referring to is physical strength, size, or speed (there are plenty of smaller, slower, weaker players in the NHL). Woman can be excellent hockey players in the vast majority of those measures (no, you’re not going to get a woman who is Chara; but you don’t get all that many men who are Chara either. Why are development and training programmes? Why do hockey players get paid megabucks? Because the skillset is unusual even among men) and every time you say Sedin Sisters you are telling every woman around you that a) you think they are intrinsically worse hockey players than yourself (and you could actually be standing next to Hayley Wickenheiser, by the way) and b) you’re a jerk.
No they’re growing up in a world that still sees it as OK that they still make less money for equivalent work, where we are taught that people value our looks more than our brains and where people still think of us as the weaker sex based on physical prowess. I agree we’re in a better place than before, doesn’t mean it can’t get better.
If you really think we’re doing alright, that we are doing better than most men and don’t have much equality to fight for, then this response is the one that makes me saddest. And I’m being called names all over the hockey blogosphere right now.
You’re being called names for taking a stance on something, and that’s what happens to everyone who does – male and female. While I appreciate where you’re coming from, I just think that this isn’t something that needs to be championed. We’re lucky that we live in a culture where we are fairly equal – in the US they’re calling the economic down turn a mancession – they’re the ones losing their jobs and picking up more of the domestic tasks while women are now the sole financial provider.
In my opinion calling guys girls as an insult, isn’t all that insulting. I laughed at the two girls no cup sign, and I also refer to Cindy Crosby. It is an easy jab at players I don’t like — and just about anything you say is going to say is going to insult someone – fecking swedes? damn gingers? So not say anything? That’s not fun. We’re talking about hockey – not the feminization of poverty, or the acid attacks being perpetrated on women in the Middle East.
And I will apologize, i think i came off a bit nastier than i meant to in my earlier post – I am just frustrated with the over PC nature of the world at the moment.
Actually the “mancession” is essentially hogwash seeing as that the gender gap in the US still exists and will probably exist for a while. Especially given the fact that the “Man-cession” refers to the first few years of the recession, in which men lost 2.5 times as many jobs as women. But in February of 2010, the trend reversed, yielding what’s been called the “he-covery“: Men have since picked up 2 million jobs, while women have lost another 164,000. Now, my figures are a few months old, but still, the numbers are there for when the US economy started a turn around. So even though men lost more jobs during the US recession than women did, men are having a recovery while women are not. To add to that, the gender gap very much still exists http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2012/04/pay_gap_infographic.html And here is more reading too http://www.npr.org/2012/03/05/147956651/the-nation-are-women-victors-in-the-economy
This is the dumbest blog post ever.
This is the worst attempt at trolling I have ever seen.
But it was pretty accurate… You’ve got to give her that!
Ok, I get it. But let me chime in with a little different perspective from a Male Feminist (Just ask my lovely Wife.). This meme is not sexist. It’s foolish to argue this point. Anyone making the Cindy/Sedin Sisters joke is not saying that women are inferior to men. They are suggesting that these men are weak. In this society and especially sports brawn is celebrated and weakness is mocked. Women are the weaker sex. You can hate this point, but you can’t argue this point. If someone insults my wife, by saying something more repugnant than calling someone a woman, and that person is a man, I have every right and inclination to beat his face into a bloody mess. If that person is a woman I don’t have that right. Unless you want to argue that I should have the right to treat that woman the exact same way, you have just lost the “women are just as tough” arguement and by extension the arguement you raised above. If you do wish to argue this point, there is something wrong with you. Just my 2 cents.
Theres that, and just the simple fact that woman wont ever be able to play NHL at the professional level with men. There is a limitation to the power of the female form, and most men also will have no chance of making it due simply to their body type…
so women are weaker then men, but they are not inferior… you clearly are losing intelligence points here pal.
secondly, do you really have the right to beat men up for what you deem offensive? does everyone have that right? i sure hope you don’t come across some big dude with a very sensitive wive who finds your t-shirt offensive, because then you really have no excuse when you get your ass kicked….
Dear sweet sensitive guy,
Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahah.
1) You may be the exception, but nearly all men are physically stronger than women.
2) Go look up inferior. I’m not going to bother expalining the difference.
Might does not make right. But you do realize we are talking about Hockey right?
Sorry can we back up to where you have every right to beat his face into a bloody pulp? I feel like I missed something here. Is there some posturing-tough-guy-on-the-internet exception to battery that makes this sort of behavior permissible for you rather than a criminal offense?
I am not making a legal arguement here. Of course it’s battery but a fight between 2 guys is a fight between 2 guys. I know it came off as some internet tough guy postering but that was not my point.
Okay, real talk.
Feminism, at its core, has to be about disassociating traits from gender. It has to be about combating classical stereotypes – i.e., women’s work is sewing and cooking and raising children. They are to be passive and deferent to their husbands, who are stronger than them physically and have the required conviction to make the important life decisions. Yknow, the 1950s.
This meme hits that straight on the head. These types of insults are metaphorical. In saying “Cindy Crosby”, the point is not to change his name, the point is to imply that he is like a woman. That he shares the characteristics of a woman, as opposed to a man. As the tone is obviously derogatory, the implication is also that the characteristics you are implicitly denying that Crosby has are desirable ones. In hockey, desirable characteristics are competitiveness, strength, willpower, and so on. You are taking that list of desirable characteristics and assigning them to one gender, effectively saying “these things are male things”, and simultaneously, dissassociating them with women.
That is why this is sexist.
I really don’t get why it’s hard for some people to understand this.
Ummmm,
Feminism, at its core, has to be about disassociating traits from gender. It has to be about combating classical stereotypes – i.e., women’s work is sewing and cooking and raising children. They are to be passive and deferent to their husbands, —–Completely Agree w/ you.
who are stronger than them physically —– Please argue that this is False?
and have the required conviction to make the important life decisions. Yknow, the 1950s. —- Complete Agree w/ you
In hockey, desirable characteristics are competitiveness, strength —- Please provide examples that these are female characteristics? You may be an olympic athlete and one of the few exceptions but these are not generaly female traits.
wait, women can’t be competitve and strong?! When did you decided that?
Mark,
Clearly you have a problem with understanding the distribution of traits based on various groups – gender, ethnicity, sexual preference, etc. etc.
Let me break it down for you in a very simple explanation – see if you can follow me here tough guy.
Height :
Men have an average height of 5’9″
Women have an average height of 5’4″
So in general, men are taller than women.. are you following me here?
Guess what – you are not taller than all women., neither am I.
Probably there are less than 0.1% of all men taller than all women.
Now let’s make a big leap here to hockey. I am 100% certain here as well.
MARK – YOU ARE NOT BETTER THAN ALL WOMEN AT HOCKEY!
and like 99.5% of all men ARE NOT BETTER THAN ALL WOMEN AT HOCKEY.
Seriously – you are not better than Wickenheiser – you know it’s true and so does everyone else here. So I won’t be calling you Mary – first, because I am not sexist. And second – most likely, the distribution of Mary’s out there playing hockey are better than you – which means I would be complimenting you. Laugh at that tough guy.
shut up and make me a samich
In my opinion, I think the writer may be taking the jokes the wrong way. The last time a woman played in the NHL was in 1992 and there hasn’t been one since. It doesn’t mean women are somehow less than or not allowed to play in the NHL, but there are simply no women good enough to play on an NHL calibre level. When it comes to the jokes I don’t think it’s simply a women are weak joke. I see it like you’re razzing an opposing NHL player that they’ll get sent back to the AHL or something on those lines. You may see that as a stretch…and I know there is an issue in every culture that women are somehow subservient, but that’s not always the case and things are changing.
Just realized this has already been said in a much more thorough/elaborate fashion…my bad.
Shave your armpits and shut the fuck up.
There’s just no helping people like you.
I’m disappointed I got duped into wasting my time to read this and equally disappointed that I’m wasting my time to respond. Straight up, this is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. For starters, ‘Two Girls’ is deplorable but has nothing to do with Cindy Crosby. Nor does calling Sidney Cindy have anything to do with insulting women. If you’ve ever watched mens and womens hockey, you would understand that despite your women’s lib, clear physical differences exist between the sexes. And that’ OK. And there is nothing wrong with celebrating the timeless and classic stereotypes of women being delicate, motherly and sensitive. Just as there is nothing wrong with celebrating the classic stereotypes of men being protectors, hunters and, well, (how else do I describe it) men. The NHL is a violent league, clearly too tough for Cindy. He obviously embodies the classic stereotypes of a woman, and to attack me for seeing humor in that makes you the most annoying cunt I’ve ever had the displeasure of reading. Get a fucking life.
Somehow you didn’t think it was a waste of your precious time to call me a cunt. It was pretty clear from the first couple of lines what the post was about. You could have clicked the ‘x’ or ‘back’ buttons. They’re there for a reason. Instead you chose to verbally abuse me and everyone who thinks like me (you know, evolved human beings). I’m not the one on the attack here, you are. And you have proven yourself to be a despicable human being. So basically, the only thing you wasted your time doing was demonstrating what a disgusting loser you are. I’d say have a nice day, but a miserable assclown like you probably hates himself too much to ever do that. So… have a day, I guess.
Just so I’m clear, you’re saying that concussions – basically, brain bruises – are an indication of weakness and delicateness? So, Derek Boogaard, one of the toughest men to ever play the modern game, who suffered and played through multiple concussions and ultimately died as an indirect result of them, was he also too much of a woman to play this tough man’s game? You’re a pig.
Christian –
You just don’t understand the issue at all.
Have you seen the men’s Korean National Hockey team play a game? Guess what they are pretty bad compared to Canada’s team.
Would you call him Sueng-mee Crosby when he plays with Richard Park? Would that be considered offensive?
You know else is pretty bad at hockey compared to Canada – the Israeli National team. I guess then calling hockey players Jewish names is also acceptable… Jeff Halpern won’t mind – he gets the joke.
Look – the distributions may tell you something about the average person – but it has nothing to do with the individual. When you degrade people by putting them in a category that is on average worse – you are offensive and IMHO – you are also insecure.
Why do you need to put down women when you put down Crosby? Clearly, Crosby is better than you – but you think you are better than girls (you’re not) – so why not call Crosby a girl. Now you can feel really good – you think you are better than all girls – and Crosby is like a girl, so you are better than him…
It’s pathetic pal…
To all those ruthlessly attacking Laura for this post, would you be saying these things to your own mother. If the answer is no, what makes it okay to be so rude and ignorant here?
Obviously, that first sentence was meant to end with a question mark.
To all the gents leaving questionable comments here; I hope after you go through puberty and learn that women are wonderful and beguiling, and not icky cooty factories, you’ll meet one who changes your whole perception on this issue.
Maybe you two will settle down and have a family of 4, with two daughters you can call your own.
Then, if you believe in a karmic universe, somebody will say these things to your wife and or daughters. Worse yet, maybe your daughter will marry a sack of shit like you and treat her like the commodity you believe women to be now.
Wouldn’t that be fantastic?
Although apparently it’s OK to punch someone like that in the face. It must be true. I saw it on the internet.
Fascinating how people offended by the notion that a joke demeans women respond by demeaning women.
This is a great post Laura! I am both appalled and disappointed at some of the comments being left here. There is no excuse for pinning weakness on women, and for the record not every successful MALE NHLer is a strong, big and physical guy and that shouldn’t be an insult to the male gender. Strong doesn’t always mean bulky arms and acting tough, it also means being smart and competitvness was never and never will be a “male characteristic”.
Nobody is being oversensitive here but there are tons of jokes that can be made about the players/team we dislike, using gender or any offending terms shouldn’t be an option.
Agreed, agreed, agreed. This blog post is spot on.
How can anyone reading this blog fail to understand why calling Crosby “Cindy” (because he is a whiner/wimp/crybaby) is insulting to women? The trolls who just want to make disparaging comments to women, or about women, or try to belittle the point of the post, deserve nothing but to be ignored. Don’t feed the trolls, people. Don’t engage them. Don’t respond to them. Instead of choosing to be educated, insightful, intelligent, thoughtful, they choose to be ignorant, close-minded, sexist, rude, and flat out stupid. This kind of behavior is not worthy of attention or acknowledgement.
I’ve read this several times now and there isn’t a single thing about it that’s controversial. All it suggests is that you think a little bit before you say something. If that’s too challenging, well, I’m sorry.
I do take issue with the notion of burning the shirt. One should never waste a good wax rag. They’re also good for cleaning up oil spills in the garage or applying paste varnish.
Yeah man, it’s so sexist when men refer to women as men, too. Saying they’re manly looking, or masculinizing their names. They’re using their own gender as an insult. Just pathetic.
Wait no. Actually they’re not. They’re referring to someone with the gender opposite of the one they identify with. Because the insult isn’t in being manly or womanly. The insult is in being the opposite of what they identify as being.
Derp.
And yet both insults are dehumanizing to women. How does that balance out DB?
If you honestly believe that they’re both dehumanizing to women, then I pity you. You seem to have serious problems with men.
Too bad this did not generate any conversaton.
Yo. This sums up your argument perfectly. People who keep bitching that calling someone a girl as a negative isn’t a bad thing. Read this. http://www.murverse.com/2012/04/15/dear-daughter/
Thanks 🙂
You’re welcome! One of my buddies on Twitter retweeted it, that’s how I found it.
Fact of the matter is this; once there are women rough and tough enough to play with men, then we will not make jokes about a “soft” hockey player playing like a girl. Simple fact is women cannot compete with men on the hockey rink. Sexist, no. Factual, yes.